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xdisciplex
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7:06 AM - Jul 11 #101

The Hammond's, who were the triggers for the Bundy stand off a few years ago, have been pardoned by Trump.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/10/poli ... index.html
"The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area," Department of Justice said in a statement in January 2016.

The perceived unjust sentence for the Hammonds inspired Ammon Bundy to lead an armed standoff in early 2016, when a group of armed men broke into the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon.
Funny how these folks are being treated compared to the North Dakota pipeline protestors trying to protect their land and way of life. :duh:
"My soul music isn't a style, genre or niche. It's music that is genuine. It's a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it's a harrowing vocal, it's feedback, it's an anthem, it's a love song, it's anarchy."
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phencyclidine
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9:49 AM - Jul 11 #102

disgraceful.
"i don't tell you how to tell me what to do, so don't tell me how to do what you tell me to do"
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Blackjebus
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2:50 PM - Jul 11 #103

Trump's dressing down of the EU shmucks this morning was a thing of beauty.

And no matter what you think of him, Trump is 100% correct to ask that question - why is Germany's ex-chancellor orchestrating deals for Germany to buy billions of dollars worth of gas and oil from Russia, then asking American/NATO defense to "protect" them from Russia (the "enemy" they are funding)?

Too bad they threw the cameramen out of the room after that - would be nice to see how awkward that breakfast was after that. :lol:
The True Fortress wrote:As a true metalhead for almost 30 years, my patience for goofballs of your ilk has become dangerously low...You have no clue what heavy metal is and need to shoot yourself in the face.
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thelostpatrol
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3:28 PM - Jul 11 #104

Because Europe is currently using US NATO funding to supply itself rather than use its own money. This will change with Brexit/EUTO but has been going on for a long, long time. Even back in the cold war. Trump is the first president that openly asked the question.
We would reveal the only truth
We would make them really sorry
We would show them Sovereignty in true fashion
And then be a reflection of their loss
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RyanJD
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5:04 PM - Jul 11 #105

Liberals cannot tolerate any other opinion other than their own and are not open to argument or compromise.

Sums up this whole thread.
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verbalsniper
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6:17 PM - Jul 11 #106

Blackjebus wrote:Trump's dressing down of the EU shmucks this morning was a thing of beauty.

And no matter what you think of him, Trump is 100% correct to ask that question - why is Germany's ex-chancellor orchestrating deals for Germany to buy billions of dollars worth of gas and oil from Russia, then asking American/NATO defense to "protect" them from Russia (the "enemy" they are funding)?

Trump calling Merkel "controlled by Russia" was only ironically funny.

The Germans should have openly told Trump to get bent, and America to stop interfering with Europe working out its own security.

That's the cold hard fact of it: NATO is a vehicle for American control of the agenda, and if anything it protects America not Europe. The Americans are desperate to prevent Europe from having normalized relations with Russia - American control & ambitions can only be fulfilled by creating conflict within Europe where none would otherwise exist.

If Europe had any sense of purpose, they would call Trump on his threats, and dare the Americans to leave.

thelostpatrol wrote:Even back in the cold war. Trump is the first president that openly asked the question.
In the Cold War, there were reasons of ideology, and a Red Army that was larger than all the rest of Europe combined. Now these reasons are gone.

Yes, Trump asked a big question of why America should fund NATO to such a degree, but the answer is one that the US itself would be dismayed to hear out in public: the US pays so much into NATO so that it can control the strategic direction of Europe, defending its own interests while preventing Europe from ever really acting in its own.

Europe does not underspend on defense as much as the US overspends. The US overspends because it has imperial ambitions to maintain, trying to be the hegemon all over the globe. Trump's "threat" to stop US spending on military intervention abroad is not much of a threat at all - more like a gift. Go ahead, Trump - withdraw those US troops, close those US bases, end the alliances. Europe's elites might not be ready for such a thing, but its nations would be better off deciding their own future, even if they have to pay more to do so.


EDIT:
US President Donald Trump has urged Nato allies to commit 4% of their annual output (GDP) to military spending - double the current target.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44799027

Maybe the Mexicans will pay for it too? :duh:
Last edited by verbalsniper on 6:53 PM - Jul 11, 2018, edited 1 time in total.
"The truth is unpleasant and therefore unpopular."
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Blasphomet
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6:39 PM - Jul 11 #107

thelostpatrol wrote:Blaspho is not nearly as toxic as the biggest offender here. Despite him being dead wrong on guns I think he is on point a lot of the time and is a valuable addition to the conversation. But fuck y'all when you derail it and make it all personal. Unless you make jokes that are funny, in which case it's forgivable. :)
Oh you. :oops:
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xdisciplex
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10:00 PM - Jul 11 #108

Blackjebus wrote:Trump's dressing down of the EU shmucks this morning was a thing of beauty.
Even funnier was the Senate pre-empting his visit with a 97-2 vote supporting NATO.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... o-as-trump

Funny too is his claims Germany is a Russian lapdog when his latest nominee back in Washington has deep Russian ties. http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/s ... ssian-bank

Even old geezer Orrin Hatch disagreed with Trump's assessment. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3964 ... of-germany

And Warren pretty much nailed it. Russia wants a destabilized EU, and Trump seems all to eager to help. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3965 ... help-putin
"My soul music isn't a style, genre or niche. It's music that is genuine. It's a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it's a harrowing vocal, it's feedback, it's an anthem, it's a love song, it's anarchy."
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Blackjebus
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6:39 AM - Jul 12 #109

xdisciplex wrote:
Blackjebus wrote:Trump's dressing down of the EU shmucks this morning was a thing of beauty.
Even funnier was the Senate pre-empting his visit with a 97-2 vote supporting NATO.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... o-as-trump
Why is that funny? Trump supports NATO, too.
The True Fortress wrote:As a true metalhead for almost 30 years, my patience for goofballs of your ilk has become dangerously low...You have no clue what heavy metal is and need to shoot yourself in the face.
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xdisciplex
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7:50 AM - Jul 12 #110

Blackjebus wrote:Trump supports NATO, too.
:lol:

You're clearly reading fiction if that's the impression you have.
"My soul music isn't a style, genre or niche. It's music that is genuine. It's a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it's a harrowing vocal, it's feedback, it's an anthem, it's a love song, it's anarchy."
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thelostpatrol
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1:47 PM - Jul 12 #111

Trump supports a NATO that all members pay their share into. Not the one that currently exists. So perhaps it's that he supports an ideal one that hasn't ever existed at all.
We would reveal the only truth
We would make them really sorry
We would show them Sovereignty in true fashion
And then be a reflection of their loss
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phencyclidine
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3:33 PM - Jul 12 #112

really been something to watch our government crumble in real time this morning.

republicans are disgraceful.
"i don't tell you how to tell me what to do, so don't tell me how to do what you tell me to do"
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Blackjebus
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7:03 PM - Jul 12 #113

xdisciplex wrote:
Blackjebus wrote:Trump supports NATO, too.
:lol:

You're clearly reading fiction if that's the impression you have.
You clearly need to watch some of his rallies and listen to what he actually says, instead of listening only to the summaries written by journalists.

Trump has repeatedly stated that he only expects other countries to hold up their ends of the terms they agree to for treaties like NATO.
The True Fortress wrote:As a true metalhead for almost 30 years, my patience for goofballs of your ilk has become dangerously low...You have no clue what heavy metal is and need to shoot yourself in the face.
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SoundMaster
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7:47 PM - Jul 12 #114

RyanJD wrote:Liberals cannot tolerate any other opinion other than their own and are not open to argument or compromise.
The same can be said of every libtard, every 'butt-hurt snowflake', every trumptard, and every conservatard I know. (These terms are used intentionally, as they define the blind sheep of both 'sides'.)
in what universe are Conservatives somehow immune to this level of ignorance/idiocy!?!? LOL
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verbalsniper
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8:24 PM - Jul 12 #115

Trump Versus FBI Part III: The Smell Of Fear

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/fbi-agent- ... -1.4743736
"The truth is unpleasant and therefore unpopular."
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verbalsniper
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9:02 PM - Jul 12 #116

Trump Versus Stormy Daniels III: Dawn Of Bustice

http://time.com/5336566/stormy-daniels- ... trip-club/

http://time.com/5337020/lawyer-stormy-d ... trip-club/

http://time.com/5337367/stormy-daniels-charges-dropped/



The takeaway from this incident is this:
An Ohio law known as the Community Defense Act prohibits anyone who isn’t a family member to touch a nude or semi-nude dancer.
And family members touching them during their sexy dance is okay because ... ? :?
"The truth is unpleasant and therefore unpopular."
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Firefarter
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10:31 PM - Jul 12 #117

verbalsniper wrote:family members touching them during their sexy dance is okay because ... ? :?
Ohio is the new Kentucky?
Clad In Shadows wrote: Thanks to the internet, people now beat things to death more than ever before.
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Metal_King
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10:44 PM - Jul 12 #118

verbalsniper wrote:
The takeaway from this incident is this:
An Ohio law known as the Community Defense Act prohibits anyone who isn’t a family member to touch a nude or semi-nude dancer.
And family members touching them during their sexy dance is okay because ... ? :?
Just in case you're watching your family member dance and they slip off the stage.....ya know.....safety reasons.

Exorcist wrote:He looks like he came in third in a fisting contest.
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xdisciplex
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2:38 AM - Jul 13 #119

thelostpatrol wrote:Trump supports a NATO that all members pay their share into. Not the one that currently exists. So perhaps it's that he supports an ideal one that hasn't ever existed at all.
Germany is the second largest contributor to NATO funding on a pure dollar amount, yet he's attacked them multiple times this week directly about NATO.
Blackjebus wrote:You clearly need to watch some of his rallies and listen to what he actually says, instead of listening only to the summaries written by journalists.

Trump has repeatedly stated that he only expects other countries to hold up their ends of the terms they agree to for treaties like NATO.
He has consistently and repeatedly undermined the alliance, even going so far as to say it's obsolete in the past.

The US has the largest military budget in the world, the largest GDP/GNP in the world, it makes sense that their share of funding for any international body including NATO be the largest share in real dollar terms.

I liked this article yesterday that said pure dollar amounts don't nearly go far enough to describe how a country contributes to NATO. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau ... -1.4743477

Maybe the problem isn't the countries below 2% funding, but the fact the US spends far too much on their military and defence budget overall?

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budg ... /spending/
https://www.nato.int/cps/ie/natohq/topics_67655.htm

The 2% thing is about indirect funding, which NATO describes as Indirect – or national – contributions are the largest and come, for instance, when a member volunteers equipment or troops to a military operation and bears the costs of the decision to do so.

Is it everyone else's fault the US is a war-hungry nation more than happy to fight multiple wars simultaneously around the world causing their budget to be much higher than others?

No.
"My soul music isn't a style, genre or niche. It's music that is genuine. It's a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it's a harrowing vocal, it's feedback, it's an anthem, it's a love song, it's anarchy."
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SoundMaster
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2:49 AM - Jul 13 #120

xdisciplex wrote:
thelostpatrol wrote:Trump supports a NATO that all members pay their share into. Not the one that currently exists. So perhaps it's that he supports an ideal one that hasn't ever existed at all.
Germany is the second largest contributor to NATO funding on a pure dollar amount, yet he's attacked them multiple times this week directly about NATO.
Blackjebus wrote:You clearly need to watch some of his rallies and listen to what he actually says, instead of listening only to the summaries written by journalists.

Trump has repeatedly stated that he only expects other countries to hold up their ends of the terms they agree to for treaties like NATO.
He has consistently and repeatedly undermined the alliance, even going so far as to say it's obsolete in the past.

The US has the largest military budget in the world, the largest GDP/GNP in the world, it makes sense that their share of funding for any international body including NATO be the largest share in real dollar terms.

I liked this article yesterday that said pure dollar amounts don't nearly go far enough to describe how a country contributes to NATO. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau ... -1.4743477

Maybe the problem isn't the countries below 2% funding, but the fact the US spends far too much on their military and defence budget overall?

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budg ... /spending/
https://www.nato.int/cps/ie/natohq/topics_67655.htm

The 2% thing is about indirect funding, which NATO describes as Indirect – or national – contributions are the largest and come, for instance, when a member volunteers equipment or troops to a military operation and bears the costs of the decision to do so.

Is it everyone else's fault the US is a war-hungry nation more than happy to fight multiple wars simultaneously around the world causing their budget to be much higher than others?

No.
Shhh. this sort of talk might have you tossed in prison.
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Blackjebus
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2:34 PM - Jul 13 #121

xdisciplex wrote:Is it everyone else's fault the US is a war-hungry nation more than happy to fight multiple wars simultaneously around the world causing their budget to be much higher than others?

No.
Is it everyone else's fault that the world's biggest polluters are more than happy to do most of the environmental damage to the world, and the world's richest and least-polluting countries (like Canada) have to pay so much more into agreements like Kyoto and Paris climate accords?

No.
The True Fortress wrote:As a true metalhead for almost 30 years, my patience for goofballs of your ilk has become dangerously low...You have no clue what heavy metal is and need to shoot yourself in the face.
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WhPlague
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6:04 PM - Jul 13 #122

12 Russians indicted in Mueller investigation

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics ... index.html
Rook wrote:that'll teach them to argue with a grown man over the price of toys!
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xdisciplex
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11:19 PM - Jul 13 #123

Blackjebus wrote:
xdisciplex wrote:Is it everyone else's fault the US is a war-hungry nation more than happy to fight multiple wars simultaneously around the world causing their budget to be much higher than others?

No.
Is it everyone else's fault that the world's biggest polluters are more than happy to do most of the environmental damage to the world, and the world's richest and least-polluting countries (like Canada) have to pay so much more into agreements like Kyoto and Paris climate accords?

No.
Source needed. All of it.
"My soul music isn't a style, genre or niche. It's music that is genuine. It's a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it's a harrowing vocal, it's feedback, it's an anthem, it's a love song, it's anarchy."
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phencyclidine
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3:11 AM - Jul 14 #124

WhPlague wrote:12 Russians indicted in Mueller investigation

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics ... index.html
i know i can't wait to see don jr's email correspondance with them. adoption was a big concern.
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xdisciplex
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5:17 AM - Jul 14 #125

This is possibly the best part...
In the morning of July 27, 2016, Donald Trump encouraged Russian hackers to find emails that had been deleted from Hillary Clinton’s private server that she used while serving as secretary of state.

The indictment states that on July 27 ― the same day as Trump’s press conference ― Russian hackers, “for the first time,” attempted to break into email accounts, including those used by Clinton’s personal office. Notably, the indictment specifies that the hack happened in the evening, meaning the Russian officials could have done it after Trump’s press conference.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-told-r ... 00281.html

The timing is amazing. If there's no case for direct collusion the indirect collusion is so blatantly there for all to see.
"My soul music isn't a style, genre or niche. It's music that is genuine. It's a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it's a harrowing vocal, it's feedback, it's an anthem, it's a love song, it's anarchy."
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